tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6357491412347234783.post4540463097317468202..comments2024-03-18T02:48:52.321-07:00Comments on Northwest Anglican: Scripture Generates the ChurchMatthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06529046356895711706noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6357491412347234783.post-78987539564610121322009-03-16T22:41:00.000-07:002009-03-16T22:41:00.000-07:00thanks Iohannesthanks IohannesMatthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06529046356895711706noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6357491412347234783.post-72169668286616138202009-03-16T19:23:00.000-07:002009-03-16T19:23:00.000-07:00Wow, I just came across that line from St Irenaeus...Wow, I just came across that line from St Irenaeus when checking a reference in Fr Behr's translation of <I>On the Apostolic Preaching</I>. Like you, I am sympathetic the the reading of Irenaeus that is more or less friendly to classically protestant Anglicanism. Several months ago I posted some materials about Irenaeus on scripture, tradition, and canon at the <A HREF="http://consciousfaith.wordpress.com" REL="nofollow">Conscious Faith blog</A>. Please have a look if you are interested.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6357491412347234783.post-1542653469805933912009-03-06T21:07:00.000-08:002009-03-06T21:07:00.000-08:00Hmmm... I'm not sure I agree with your statement a...Hmmm... I'm not sure I agree with your statement about the "real authority" in non-Protestant churches (plural) coming from the episcopacy. Obviously this is the case for the papists, but I'm not sure you can say it is true of the Orthodox.<BR/><BR/>Like with our take on apostolic succession, there's probably an element of tension there. For instance, unlike Anglicans and Romanists, we do not believe that apostolic succession occurs or has any meaning among (schismatic) heretics. If one is to be a bishop in apostolic succession, one must hold the right faith in the right community. If a bishop perverts his faith and is expelled from the community, his episcopal office no longer has any meaning. He is, as it were, a fish out of (baptismal) water.<BR/><BR/>But as for our bishops' role as successors of the apostles, it is true that they issue definitive, authoritative teaching for us. Nevertheless, it is the (often neglected) duty of every Christian to know the faith well and to be able to defend himself even from his bishop's heresy, if need be. Many, many Christian bishops have become heretics over the years, and the laity have sometimes even dramatically held their ground against them, overturning their heresy by the power of the Spirit.<BR/><BR/>So you see that ultimately it is the Faith itself which is authoritative among us. This may not fit easily into some neat Western "quadrillateral" or whatnot, but it is the faith of the Church, upheld in miraculous constancy generation to generation which is the Rock of our authority. Nevertheless, we look to the present bishops, the liturgy, the literary legacy of the fathers, and the jewel of the apostolic deposit itself for our authority as well. To start forming Western epistemological heirarchies with these things is not to understand the Orthodox mind. All of these things are authoritative and mutually reinforcing, and while you could take the doctrine of a small group of present bishops or some random idiocy of an ancient father or a few scattered Scriptural passages and pervert them to form something which is not the Christian faith, it has been the miraculous experience of the Church throughout time that there dwells among us one faith, one mind, the mind which was in Christ Jesus, which ties these things together.<BR/><BR/>Does all that actually make sense, or am I just speaking more idiocy?<BR/><BR/>Much Love in Christ,<BR/>Ed<BR/><BR/>(P.S. Good talking to you the other night, man)Edhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02029716952735323038noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6357491412347234783.post-75906936222938623962009-03-06T16:57:00.000-08:002009-03-06T16:57:00.000-08:00Aaron - yeah, I've tried to keep it on the D.L. - ...Aaron - yeah, I've tried to keep it on the D.L. - only you and Jon know about it as far as I know. <BR/><BR/>David - glad you found it interesting.Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06529046356895711706noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6357491412347234783.post-18390840852803737952009-03-06T16:14:00.000-08:002009-03-06T16:14:00.000-08:00Are you telling me you had this blog the whole tim...Are you telling me you had this blog the whole time and never told me about it? I hope you weren't trying to keep it private, because it's too late now. I thought it was interesting that you find ground for the authority of Scripture from the church; that is, a church father. Do you see what I mean? You get the authority of scripture from the authority of a church father. Just a thought :) Alright, I've gotta study...Aaronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13773620273889563306noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6357491412347234783.post-10293841067349766232009-03-06T13:56:00.000-08:002009-03-06T13:56:00.000-08:00Matt, great post. Your strength in patristics is ...Matt, great post. Your strength in patristics is my acknowledged weakness and your post has definitely helped to increase my understanding in a dispute that is utterly pertinent in Eastern Europe.David Goranhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15585922470603676083noreply@blogger.com